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February 19th, 2009

Pirate Bay's I-dunno defense

Posted by Richard Koman @ February 19, 2009 @ 11:06 PM

Categories: Government technology

Tags: Agreement, Site, Pirate Bay, Neij, Richard Koman

I wrote a comment on the Pirate Bay story to the effect that TPB can’t be charged with conspiracy as someone suggested because:

The elements of conspiracy are this (again, US law): (1) there was an agreement to commit an illegal act; (2) the conspirators willingly entered the agreement; (3) one of the parties committed an overt act towards completion of the crime; (4) the overt act was taken contemporaneous with the allegation of the criminal act.

In other words, unless TPB had some agreement to send users over to this torrent site or that torrent site, there was no agreement. The link would be the overt act but there was simply no agreement between TPB and Torrent site. Thats why theres no conspiracy charge.

But reading coverage of the trial today Ars Technica, I’m beginning to wonder.

Fredrik Neij was questioned by lawyers who tried to paint him as the point man for The Pirate Bay operations. Peter Danowsky, who represents the music business, pointed out that Niej owned The Pirate Bay’s domain and then showed him a contract he had signed saying that he would oversee operations for the site. Neij’s response? “But I didn’t read it.”

Neij was also asked about a speech he gave back in 2006 (watch it on YouTube) in which he said that the site had received many threatening letters over the years from copyright owners. Lawyers tried to use the speech to show that Pirate Bay admins were aware the site hosted links to copyrighted content. Neij’s response? “I just read the text which someone at the Pirate Bureau had written.” (Neij says he’s dyslexic and has difficult writing his own material.)

When asked about his view of the law as it related to copyrights, Neij said that he doesn’t worry much about the law, doesn’t care about the ideology behind (some) file-swapping, and does what he does because it’s fun to run a large site. He did indicate that he thought the site was legal.

This I-dunno defense doesn’t hold much water, I think. The question is whether there was any communication, any agreement between illegal torrent sites. The evidence isn’t quite there, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see enough to show some intention, some money-making activities. That would be enough to convict on the

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 73 Talkback(s)
Beer glass manufacturer..
Hahahahaha, wicked analogy dude.. (Read the rest)
Posted by: djohn86@... Posted on: 05/13/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
The name says it all  wackoae | 02/19/09
Not All Torrents Are Illegal  Common User | 02/20/09
They only need to prove some are illegal.  CobraA1 | 02/20/09
"They only need to prove that some are illegal"  AngerNotManaged | 02/20/09
No they dont and your argument is irrelevant  answrtek | 02/21/09
Evidence is Hard To Come By  Common User | 02/22/09
RE: Pirate Bay  FOR_THE_PEOPLE | 02/20/09
What conspiracy?  johnfenjackson@... | 02/20/09
If it was a click-through contract, they can use the kitty defense.  Letophoro | 02/20/09
I doubt that would hold.  CobraA1 | 02/20/09
He Gave directions  rodmanbrowning@... | 02/20/09
RE: Pirate Bay  medezark@... | 02/20/09
It's pretty obvious  CobraA1 | 02/20/09
Contrat not negotiated  zefficace | 02/20/09
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder !!  answrtek | 02/21/09
Last paragraph  TaDaH | 02/20/09
"The gold..."  seanferd | 02/22/09
Is Conspiracy part of the Charges?  mr1972 | 02/20/09
Conspiracy  answrtek | 02/21/09
That only leaves you with...  mr1972 | 02/24/09
RE: Pirate Bay  Fark | 02/20/09
It goes directly to intent  answrtek | 02/20/09
RE: Pirate Bay  AngerNotManaged | 02/20/09
RE: Pirate Bay  roberto_maietta@... | 02/20/09
Torrent sites have no content generally  answrtek | 02/20/09
Ah see, you do understand it after all  answrtek | 02/22/09
Takedown Requests  williamfrantz | 02/23/09
RE: Pirate Bay  Deadly Ernest | 02/20/09
Frank McCoy's problem  answrtek | 02/20/09
Does McCoy Apply Here?  williamfrantz | 02/23/09
No it doesnt apply at all  answrtek | 02/23/09
RE: Pirate Bay  Jameshweston@... | 02/20/09
The real issue  answrtek | 02/20/09
Wow, Wierd but Wow !  answrtek | 02/22/09
Beer glass manufacturer..  djohn86@... | 05/13/09
.. Yes we can .....  chaz15 | 02/20/09
Huh? What ? Are you from this dimension?  answrtek | 02/20/09
Of course it makes sense  david_horsman@... | 02/21/09
Oh Horse-hockey !  answrtek | 02/21/09
RE: Pirate Bay  d_kelly120020@... | 02/20/09
Rights are intact?  answrtek | 02/20/09
RE: Pirate Bay  Jonno-the-First | 02/20/09
RE: Pirate Bay  deowll | 02/20/09
DOPE ! ! ! ! !  chaz15 | 02/20/09
Like you?  answrtek | 02/20/09
Thank you answrtek  david_horsman@... | 02/21/09
You are welcome  answrtek | 02/21/09
They are scared of one word  answrtek | 02/21/09
WHERE IS THE END OF THE ARTICLE????  goldston | 02/21/09
Takedown Requests  williamfrantz | 02/22/09
Your supposition is not grounded in reality  answrtek | 02/22/09
Actual Facts  williamfrantz | 02/23/09
Arguing with myself  williamfrantz | 02/24/09
RE: Pirate Bay  theSmartOne | 02/22/09
Something to think about before you express an opinion  answrtek | 02/22/09
Thinking about it  bart001fr | 02/24/09
The Last Laugh  Common User | 02/22/09
When did rhetoric become illegal?  figmo2000@... | 02/23/09
RE: Pirate Bay  donc13 | 02/24/09
Logic is like a tree....  answrtek | 02/25/09
RE: Pirate Bay  donc13 | 02/24/09
Fair Use?  williamfrantz | 02/25/09
Operative word  answrtek | 02/25/09
Read about DMCA safe harbor provisions  answrtek | 02/25/09
RE: Pirate Bay  donc13 | 02/24/09
What do they know?  williamfrantz | 02/25/09
True, sad but true  answrtek | 02/25/09
That would prove it to a geek....  answrtek | 02/25/09
RE: Pirate Bay  donc13 | 02/24/09
Point of Order  answrtek | 02/25/09
RE: Pirate Bay  donc13 | 02/24/09
Its a good thing TPB isn't located in the US  Common User | 02/25/09
Ignorance?  answrtek | 02/25/09

What do you think?

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